The Drama of the Lost Disciples
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The Drama of the Lost Disciples is a 1961 book by George Jowett, a former bodybuilder and fitness instructor, which purports to trace several of Christ's disciples and other associates, including Joseph of Arimathea, St. Paul, St. Simon, and even his mother Mary, to Britain, where they founded a Christian church which predates, and therefore has precedence over, the Roman Catholic Church. The book also espouses British Israelism, arguing that the Welsh and English are descended from the so-called "Lost tribes of Israel", and claiming that they preserved their genetic and religious purity more assiduously than the Jews. Theories based on Jowett's work are popular on the internet, and among British Israelites and adherents of the Christian Identity movement. The book is written in readable style. He cites classical historians, early church fathers, medieval and early modern writers, but many of these citations are distorted and inaccurate. However, the publishers of the 16th UK edition (July 2011) confirm they checked all Jowett's references.
[edit] 1 Examples of distortion of sources
Jowett claims that Julius Caesar, in his De Bello Gallico Book 4,[1] "refers in amazement to the number of populous cities, the architecture, universities of learning, the numerical population of England, and particularly to their religion with its belief in the immortality of the soul". While it is true that Caesar notes Britain's population and its status as a centre of druidical learning, and elsewhere in his commentaries notes the druids' belief in the immortality of the soul, he nowhere mentions British cities, architecture or universities.
He claims that "the early Christian and Roman records abound with the name and warrior fame of Arviragus" (supposedly a British Christian prince who led the defence against the Roman conquest), and quotes Satire IV of Juvenal as saying "Hath our great enemy Arviragus, the car borne British King, dropped from his battle throne?" as an example.[2] This cryptic mention, in a satirical poem about Roman social life, is the only mention of Arviragus's name in the entirety of classical literature, and all other known references to him are derivative of Geoffrey of Monmouth's 12th century Historia Regum Britanniae,[3] also an imaginative nationalist pseudohistory.
He claims that, of Caratacus's supposed "trial" before the emperor Claudius, "Tacitus tells us that his daughter Gladys refused to be separated from her father, though it was against the Roman law for a woman to enter the Senate..." Tacitus nowhere tells us any such thing. After Caratacus was pardoned, he claims "the famed Queen Agrippira (sic) rose from her dais, approaching the Pendragon, and his daughter Gladys, shaking hands with each according to the British fashion, then embracing them, according to the Roman." A footnote to this passage cites Tacitus's Annals 12.37,[4] which again says no such thing. He claims that Pomponia Graecina, the probably Christian wife of Aulus Plautius, was a Briton, also called "Gladys", citing Tacitus's Annals 13.32[5] in support of this assertion; Tacitus does mention Pomponia, and the fact that she was accused of "foreign superstition", but nowhere does he call her "Gladys" or claim she was British.
On other occasions he will put a passage in quotation marks, but not cite its provenance. Where he does cite sources, as shown above, he can often be demonstrated to be taking liberties with them. On other occasions his citations are more reliable, although his sources may not be.
He regularly cites the Annales Ecclesiastici of Caesar Baronius, the 16th century church historian. On one occasion he directly quotes him, regarding Joseph of Arimathea's journey, as saying, under the year AD 35, "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britain and after preaching the gospel there, died." This is not quite a direct quotation from the Annales Ecclesiastici, and is mis-cited. A passage found under AD 35, translated into English, reads:
"In this dispersion, Ananias, having set out from Damascus gathered together a company of believers. At the same time, as one can ascertain, Lazarus, Mary Magdalene, Martha and Marcella whom the Jews regarded with great hatred, were not exactly driven away from Jerusalem but, together with the disciple Maximinus, were placed in a boat without oars and were believed to have perished in dangerous seas. By Divine providence they are said to have been driven to Marseilles. Taking with them a friend, Joseph of Arimathea, a noble decurion, they are said to have travelled from Gaul to Britain and there he proclaimed the gospel till his last day..."[6] This passage can be read in Latin in the British Library in London.
It is also sourced by Ludovicus Guérin, the editor of the Annales, to the Acta Magalenae,[7] an 11th century piece of ecclesiastical propaganda.[8]
[edit] 2 References
^ Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico Book IV
^ Juvenal, Satire IV, .126-127
^ Geoffrey of Monmouth, Historia Regum Britanniae 4.12-17
^ Tacitus, Annals 12:37
^ Tacitus, Annals 13:32
^ Ludovicus Guérin (ed), Caesaris Barionii Annales Ecclesiastici, 1864, Vol 1, AD 35 paragraph 5, p. 208
^ op. cit. footnote 3
^ Hans Lewy, "Imaginary Journeys from Palestine to France", Journal of the Warburg Institute Vol. 1, No. 3, 1938, pp. 251-253
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Revision history of The Drama of the Lost Disciples
(cur | prev) 2011-08-04T09:26:20 Nicknack009 (talk | contribs) (6,926 bytes) (AfD: Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Drama of the Lost Disciples) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-07-30T11:30:25 Michael Anthony Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,514 bytes) (16th UK Editon (July 2011); 'AD 36' corrected to 'AD 35' Edit by Chairman of the publisher) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-06-13T01:56:43 ImageRemovalBot (talk | contribs) (6,510 bytes) (Removing deleted image) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2010-04-05T06:49:50 FrescoBot (talk | contribs) m (6,357 bytes) (Bot: links syntax and spacing) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:52:13 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,357 bytes) (References checked for the 16th edition) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:33:48 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) (6,255 bytes) (The availability of the AD 35 quotation in Latin in the British Library in London) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:24:46 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,191 bytes) (Two tribes formed the Kingdom of Judah whereas the Ten Tribes formed the Kingdom of Israel who became 'lost' to secular history. The book written in romantic style is anything but a 'pious fraud') (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:17:59 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) m (6,174 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: cite that) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T00:26:43 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,781 bytes) (New Testament reference to the British royal family in exile in Rome.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T00:03:21 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,489 bytes) ('romantic fraud' for 'pious fraud'; 'are elaborated upon' for 'deliberate distortions' to provide more balance and omit liabllous accusations) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-11T15:54:17 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,495 bytes) (Redirection to the year AD 35 in "Annales Ecclesiastici'' for the relevant quotation; tribute to Baronius; publishers remarks on 16th Edition) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T16:39:55 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (4,855 bytes) (16th (USA) edition Nov 2009.) (undo)
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Talk:The Drama of the Lost Disciples
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This article is full of weasle words and sounds like orginal research. Which modern scholar is refuting this Jowett?
~~
I wondered when someone would try this tactic. If checking citations is "original research", then what's the point of including them? Jowett's book is demostrably riddled with falsehoods, and if you want to claim that pointing out those falsehoods is invalid, then I have to wonder about your motivations. --Nicknack009 17:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Reverted new additions
I have changed and/or removed most of the edits by Michael A Clark.
Making up things and attributing them to ancient sources is not "elaborating upon" them, it's dishonest.
A Claudia and a Linus are mentioned in II Timothy. The idea that Claudia was also called "Gladys" and that she and Linus were the children of Caratacus in exile in Rome is not in II Timothy, nor in any other source. It is made up. The first bishop of Rome after Paul is indeed said to have been called Linus, but it is far from certain he was the same Linus as in II Timothy, if he even existed. II Timothy is also widely considered to be a fake.
The Catholic Encyclopedia's opinion of Baronius is a meaningless appeal to authority.
I've also removed weasel words that are designed to obscure the essentially fraudulent nature of the book.--Irishcomics (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
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20 August 2011
Christian-New Age dialogue
Christian-New Age dialogue
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New Agers, many of whom had grown up as Christians, rejected that religion as a spirit-stifling relic of a bygone era. Instead, they tried to celebrate alternative ideas, some of which are based on ancient teachings, while others are founded on contemporary paradigms, ranging from New Physics to ufology.
Even today, some Christians refer to the New Age Movement as “simply a re-packaging of Satanic beliefs.[1] Others assert that “The concepts of the New Age Movement are not new — they are based on ancient erroneous beliefs about God, man and the world.”[2] On the other hand, many New Age proponents still question the necessity or desirability of a male god.[3] One group of alternative seekers who refer to themselves as “Millennials” say, “Religion is losing us because it invokes disagreement and violence…”[4]
“Dialogue” can be defined as a “conversation” or “exchange of ideas … with a view to reaching an amicable agreement.”[5] According to others, it also denotes a “communication” or a “search for truth.”[6]
Some have noted that “ours is a culture largely frustrated with the prevailing religious establishment….”.[citation needed] Catherine Groves, editor of Christian*New Age Quarterly, refers not only to those seeking alternative spiritual paths, but also to Christians who desire a deeper meaning within their own religion. She suggests “vying to better oneself at the expense of the whole is recognized … as an abysmal way to interact in an ever shrinking, endangered world.”[7] Thus, the “ever shrinking world” needs, according to Groves, a population committed to dialogue, to an understanding and appreciation of the other.
Another aspect of dialogue is presented by Robert Arias, a research neurophysiologist, who writes that the Western and Eastern ideas of spirituality “stand in striking contrast” to each other. However, he observes that each works using a specific area of the brain. The “left hemisphere contains the centers for verbal reasoning and analytical thought…,” relating to a regulated spiritual belief. The right hemisphere “is responsible for intuitive thought … fitting together of separate things into coherent patterns,” relating to a more inclusive spiritual belief.[8]
Perhaps therapist/case manager Sally Nulph offers a basis for dialogue when she writes, “A spiritual path should be clear and unified.... If a Christian or a New Age follower seeks to find their greatest peace, they need to constantly assess where their path is taking them.”[9]
Others advance this thought. Lutheran theologian Ted Peters writes of the Graduate Theological Union (GTU), a scholastic center originally intended to bring different factions of Christianity together for “interdenominational cooperation.” Later, the GTU expanded to include other theologies such as Judaism and Buddhism. Peters observes, “It is this combination of authentic traditions that gives the ecumenical mix its tensive and exciting flavor.” He further speaks of our world being “in reality pluralistic; so I for one could not conceive of an adequate theological education that does not reflect this undeniable reality.”[10]
Another voice for the importance of dialogue is Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue (Founded in 1989).[11] Peters adds, “Groves can speak of ‘two frameworks of exchange…,” thus creating “a mood of ‘both/and’ to replace ‘either/or’ thinking.”[12]
[edit] 1 References
^ http://lightingthewayworldwide.org.
^ http://bibleprobe.com
^ “Why is God Male?: Thealogy — The Politics and Sociology of Religion and Abrahamic Hypermasculinity,” http://kwelos.tripod.com/thealogy.htm.
^ “Millennial Generation Spirituality,” http://www.grapethinking.com/millennial-generation-spirituality.
^ The Random House Dictionary of the English Language (New York: Random House, 1967).
^ J. I. Rodale, The Synonym Finder (New York: Warner Books, 1978).
^ Catherine Groves, “The Small Magazine at the Forefront of Religious Change,” The Small Magazine Review 1:7 (December 1993).
^ Robert Arias, research neurophysiologist and author in the field of spirituality, “The Complementarity of Opposites,” Christian*New Age Quarterly 18:4 (June 2008-February 2009).
^ Sally Nulph, therapist/case manager, Newaygo Mental Health, Greater Grand Rapids, MI, “Are Christian and New Age Beliefs Compatible?” Pagewise (2002).
^ Rev. Dr. Theodore Peters, professor of systematic theology, Pacific Lutheran Seminary and Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, The Cosmic Self: A Penetrating Look at Today’s New Age Movement, (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1991).
^ Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue, Catherine Groves, editor, P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276, http://www.christiannewage.com.
^ The Cosmic Self: “Positive yet nonsyncretistic assessments of the new age on the part of Christians are rare. One example, however, is the Christian*New Age Quarterly, edited by Catherine Groves. Groves can speak of ‘two frameworks of exchange,’ of ‘Christian-New Age friction’ and of ‘dialogue.’ What she favors is a mood of ‘both/and’ to replace ‘either/or’ thinking. Copies of the quarterly can be obtained from Christian*New Age Quarterly, P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276,” p. 208.
[edit] 2 Bibliography
Arias, Robert. "The Complementarity of Opposites." Christian*New Age Quarterly 18:4 (June 2008-February 2009). http://www.christiannewage.com.
Bible Probe for Christians and Messianic Jews. http://bibleprobe.com.
Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue. P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276. http://www.christiannewage.com.
Groves, Catherine. “The Small Magazine at the Forefront of Religious Change.” The Small Magazine Review 1:7 (December 1993).
Lighting the Way Worldwide: Telling the World About Jesus. http://lightingthewayworldwide.org.
“Millennial Generation Spirituality.” http://www.grapethinking.com/millennial-generation-spirituality.
Nulph, Sally. “Are Christian and New Age Beliefs Compatible?” Pagewise (2002).
Peters, Theodore. The Cosmic Self: A Penetrating Look at Today’s New Age Movement. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1991.
“Why is God Male?: Thealogy — The Politics and Sociology of Religion and Abrahamic Hypermasculinity.” posted by Mu. http://kwelos.tripod.com/thealogy.htm.
[edit] 3 See also
Landaiche, Nemour. "Proposing a Bridge When the Other Sees No Divide." Christian*New Age Quarterly (January–March 1996).
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Talk:Christian-New Age dialogue
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Today (August 14, 2011) I noticed that this page is up for deletion -- and I can't for the life of me imagine why.
Though I'm quite familiar with both the terms "Christian" and "New Age", I'm not a practicing "Christian" -- nor am I much of an adherent of "new age" principles. That said, however, I find any discourse of the two subjects fascinating and invigorating to my spirit and intellect. Similar to political discussions that can be anywhere from far right to far left, open discussion of the theories involved help all parties come to their own personal feelings about the issues involved. Knowledge, after all, is power.
My own spiritual practices are more of an amalgamation of various spiritual practices with a dash of free-will thrown into the mix. This is why I'm SO fascinated with any discussions between folks of different faiths, beliefs, and paths. Without lively discussion, how can people come to their own conclusions -- conclusions which, as a result of the discourse, may be moved along into new depths of richness and knowing?
I sincerely hope that Wikipedia will allow this page to remain -- thereby encouraging a (possibly lively) discussion between folks interesting in both Christian and New Age dialogues.
Thanks for your own input! That's what it's all about!
Michael Walker Washington, DC http://dreamwalkergroup.com
This page was last modified on 2011-08-14 at 15:46:54.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.
Revision history of Talk:Christian-New Age dialogue
(cur | prev) 2011-08-14T15:46:54 98.218.227.45 (talk) (1,362 bytes) (Added homepage.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-14T15:44:16 98.218.227.45 (talk) (1,334 bytes) (Starting open Christian-New Age dialog.)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
Feel free to edit the article, but the article must not be blanked, and this notice must not be removed, until the discussion is closed. For more information, particularly on merging or moving the article during the discussion, read the Guide to deletion.
This article may contain promotional material and other spam. Please remove any content which is not encyclopedic, and any promotional external links in accordance with Wikipedia:External links. (You can help!) (August 2011)
New Agers, many of whom had grown up as Christians, rejected that religion as a spirit-stifling relic of a bygone era. Instead, they tried to celebrate alternative ideas, some of which are based on ancient teachings, while others are founded on contemporary paradigms, ranging from New Physics to ufology.
Even today, some Christians refer to the New Age Movement as “simply a re-packaging of Satanic beliefs.[1] Others assert that “The concepts of the New Age Movement are not new — they are based on ancient erroneous beliefs about God, man and the world.”[2] On the other hand, many New Age proponents still question the necessity or desirability of a male god.[3] One group of alternative seekers who refer to themselves as “Millennials” say, “Religion is losing us because it invokes disagreement and violence…”[4]
“Dialogue” can be defined as a “conversation” or “exchange of ideas … with a view to reaching an amicable agreement.”[5] According to others, it also denotes a “communication” or a “search for truth.”[6]
Some have noted that “ours is a culture largely frustrated with the prevailing religious establishment….”.[citation needed] Catherine Groves, editor of Christian*New Age Quarterly, refers not only to those seeking alternative spiritual paths, but also to Christians who desire a deeper meaning within their own religion. She suggests “vying to better oneself at the expense of the whole is recognized … as an abysmal way to interact in an ever shrinking, endangered world.”[7] Thus, the “ever shrinking world” needs, according to Groves, a population committed to dialogue, to an understanding and appreciation of the other.
Another aspect of dialogue is presented by Robert Arias, a research neurophysiologist, who writes that the Western and Eastern ideas of spirituality “stand in striking contrast” to each other. However, he observes that each works using a specific area of the brain. The “left hemisphere contains the centers for verbal reasoning and analytical thought…,” relating to a regulated spiritual belief. The right hemisphere “is responsible for intuitive thought … fitting together of separate things into coherent patterns,” relating to a more inclusive spiritual belief.[8]
Perhaps therapist/case manager Sally Nulph offers a basis for dialogue when she writes, “A spiritual path should be clear and unified.... If a Christian or a New Age follower seeks to find their greatest peace, they need to constantly assess where their path is taking them.”[9]
Others advance this thought. Lutheran theologian Ted Peters writes of the Graduate Theological Union (GTU), a scholastic center originally intended to bring different factions of Christianity together for “interdenominational cooperation.” Later, the GTU expanded to include other theologies such as Judaism and Buddhism. Peters observes, “It is this combination of authentic traditions that gives the ecumenical mix its tensive and exciting flavor.” He further speaks of our world being “in reality pluralistic; so I for one could not conceive of an adequate theological education that does not reflect this undeniable reality.”[10]
Another voice for the importance of dialogue is Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue (Founded in 1989).[11] Peters adds, “Groves can speak of ‘two frameworks of exchange…,” thus creating “a mood of ‘both/and’ to replace ‘either/or’ thinking.”[12]
[edit] 1 References
^ http://lightingthewayworldwide.org.
^ http://bibleprobe.com
^ “Why is God Male?: Thealogy — The Politics and Sociology of Religion and Abrahamic Hypermasculinity,” http://kwelos.tripod.com/thealogy.htm.
^ “Millennial Generation Spirituality,” http://www.grapethinking.com/millennial-generation-spirituality.
^ The Random House Dictionary of the English Language (New York: Random House, 1967).
^ J. I. Rodale, The Synonym Finder (New York: Warner Books, 1978).
^ Catherine Groves, “The Small Magazine at the Forefront of Religious Change,” The Small Magazine Review 1:7 (December 1993).
^ Robert Arias, research neurophysiologist and author in the field of spirituality, “The Complementarity of Opposites,” Christian*New Age Quarterly 18:4 (June 2008-February 2009).
^ Sally Nulph, therapist/case manager, Newaygo Mental Health, Greater Grand Rapids, MI, “Are Christian and New Age Beliefs Compatible?” Pagewise (2002).
^ Rev. Dr. Theodore Peters, professor of systematic theology, Pacific Lutheran Seminary and Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, The Cosmic Self: A Penetrating Look at Today’s New Age Movement, (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1991).
^ Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue, Catherine Groves, editor, P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276, http://www.christiannewage.com.
^ The Cosmic Self: “Positive yet nonsyncretistic assessments of the new age on the part of Christians are rare. One example, however, is the Christian*New Age Quarterly, edited by Catherine Groves. Groves can speak of ‘two frameworks of exchange,’ of ‘Christian-New Age friction’ and of ‘dialogue.’ What she favors is a mood of ‘both/and’ to replace ‘either/or’ thinking. Copies of the quarterly can be obtained from Christian*New Age Quarterly, P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276,” p. 208.
[edit] 2 Bibliography
Arias, Robert. "The Complementarity of Opposites." Christian*New Age Quarterly 18:4 (June 2008-February 2009). http://www.christiannewage.com.
Bible Probe for Christians and Messianic Jews. http://bibleprobe.com.
Christian*New Age Quarterly: A bridge supporting dialogue. P.O. Box 276, Clifton, NJ 07015-0276. http://www.christiannewage.com.
Groves, Catherine. “The Small Magazine at the Forefront of Religious Change.” The Small Magazine Review 1:7 (December 1993).
Lighting the Way Worldwide: Telling the World About Jesus. http://lightingthewayworldwide.org.
“Millennial Generation Spirituality.” http://www.grapethinking.com/millennial-generation-spirituality.
Nulph, Sally. “Are Christian and New Age Beliefs Compatible?” Pagewise (2002).
Peters, Theodore. The Cosmic Self: A Penetrating Look at Today’s New Age Movement. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 1991.
“Why is God Male?: Thealogy — The Politics and Sociology of Religion and Abrahamic Hypermasculinity.” posted by Mu. http://kwelos.tripod.com/thealogy.htm.
[edit] 3 See also
Landaiche, Nemour. "Proposing a Bridge When the Other Sees No Divide." Christian*New Age Quarterly (January–March 1996).
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Talk:Christian-New Age dialogue
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Today (August 14, 2011) I noticed that this page is up for deletion -- and I can't for the life of me imagine why.
Though I'm quite familiar with both the terms "Christian" and "New Age", I'm not a practicing "Christian" -- nor am I much of an adherent of "new age" principles. That said, however, I find any discourse of the two subjects fascinating and invigorating to my spirit and intellect. Similar to political discussions that can be anywhere from far right to far left, open discussion of the theories involved help all parties come to their own personal feelings about the issues involved. Knowledge, after all, is power.
My own spiritual practices are more of an amalgamation of various spiritual practices with a dash of free-will thrown into the mix. This is why I'm SO fascinated with any discussions between folks of different faiths, beliefs, and paths. Without lively discussion, how can people come to their own conclusions -- conclusions which, as a result of the discourse, may be moved along into new depths of richness and knowing?
I sincerely hope that Wikipedia will allow this page to remain -- thereby encouraging a (possibly lively) discussion between folks interesting in both Christian and New Age dialogues.
Thanks for your own input! That's what it's all about!
Michael Walker Washington, DC http://dreamwalkergroup.com
This page was last modified on 2011-08-14 at 15:46:54.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.
Revision history of Talk:Christian-New Age dialogue
(cur | prev) 2011-08-14T15:46:54 98.218.227.45 (talk) (1,362 bytes) (Added homepage.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-14T15:44:16 98.218.227.45 (talk) (1,334 bytes) (Starting open Christian-New Age dialog.)
Gateway Church (Australia)
Gateway Church (Australia)
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For the church in the USA with the same name, see Gateway Church (Texas).
Gateway Church (Australia)
Website http://www.gateway.asn.au
Gateway Church - also known as Gateway Family Church, is a contemporary Christian community on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia.[1] Their purpose statement is "Taking hold of the real life that Jesus gives, we grow people with a passionate concern for our world." The church is involved in community development in Papua New Guinea, where it has also started four churches.
Contents
1 History
2 Melbourne, Australia
2.1 Community involvement
2.2 Weekend services
2.3 Conferences
2.4 Podcast
2.5 Property & future plans
3 Papua New Guinea
3.1 Community development
3.2 Raising awareness & support
4 References
5 External links
[edit] 1 History
Gateway began with 24 people in 1986 as a "church plant" from the Pines Forest Baptist church.The original pastor became ill shortly after services commenced. In his absence Rick Paynter took charge of this new church.
Gateway grew from a home church and occupied many venues as the church developed. Gateway is currently in the process of developing a new site at 107 Seaford Place that they intend to occupy for the foreseeable future[2]. They are affiliated with the Baptist Union of Australia.[3]
The church started in Langwarrin, and then moved to Frankston. They have recently purchased a factory in Seaford and currently have plans for a 400 seat auditorium and various other refurbishments.[4]
[edit] 2 Melbourne, Australia
Gateway says their aim is to be open to those who are genuinely seeking spiritual answers. They use modern music, drama & theatre, dance, film and other creative arts to create a "contemporary style of ministry".[5][6][7]
[edit] 2.1 Community involvement
Gateway runs sporting and recreational activities [8][9] with the Victorian Government's 'Go For Your Life' program.[10][11] This includes the Gateway Basketball Association [12] with +500 players, 4WD trips, fishing trips, golf tournaments and weekend events. In 2008 a swimmer from Gateway - Ellie Cole, represented Australia in the 2008 Paralympic Games.[13] The sports and recreation ministries have struggled when the enthusiastic but frustrated Murray Holmes left to start his own church "Liquid".
Gateway has performed theatre productions since about 1995. In 2005, they performed Bye Bye Birdie jointly with staff and students from Elisabeth Murdoch College. In 2008 the church made its home in the Frankston Village Theatre complex, hosting the musicals within the meeting space.[14] The opening theatre production was entitled "Pirates of the Peninsula".
Gateway is involved in community festivals around Frankston.[15] They assist the key organiser of the Frankston Good Friday March and Family Fun Day,[16] as well as contributing to the Frankston Festival of Lights.[17]
To provide nationally recognised courses in Business and Management, a Life Training Institute began in 2006.[18]
[edit] 2.2 Weekend services
During Sunday services, crèche and primary school age children attend Godzone. Gateway Youth run mid-week activities, with an annual summer camp called Camp No Fear attracting about 250 youth. During the week Gateway runs playgroups for pre-schoolers.[19]
[edit] 2.3 Conferences
Gateway ran a 'Connecting Conference' about starting new churches for several years, the most recent being in 2005 and held at Mount Eliza Business School [1]. Since 2007 they have co-organised the annual "Unite Creative Arts Conference" with Crossway Baptist Church, Christian City Church (Whitehorse) and Careforce Church [20]
Since 1998 the largest group of delegates to the Hillsong Conference has come from Gateway, with +560 delegates in 2009.This large group is made up of people from over 30 different non Gateway churches and includes individuals from New Zealand and South Africa. Des and Brenda Deacon have co-ordinated this large group of delegates for 20+ years. The growth can be attributed to their exceptional organisational management and networking skills. The Deacons have retired from organising this event following the 2010 event. Gatways recognises their dedication and hard work as the major factor in the churches biggest annual event.
In 2009 they ran a PNG Conference in Mt Hagen. Delegates attended from each of the 4 Gateway PNG Churches and Melbourne.
[edit] 2.4 Podcast
Gateway Youth began podcasting monthly events in August 2008. Itunes recorded an annual +15,000 downloads.
[edit] 2.5 Property & future plans
Gateway Church in Melbourne planned to build and manage its own LIFE centre. They had plans to develop a worship and performing arts theatre, conference centre, and other community facilities - located on a 60-acre (24 ha) campus in Baxter, Victoria known as “Carrup Carrup” by the traditional Australian Aboriginal owners. This translates to 'highland on the marshes'. The land was originally owned by Benjamin Baxter, and his original cottage is still preserved on the land.
Gateway received a planning permit to build on the land from the Victorian Government, but this was revoked after the Melbourne 2030 Green Wedge Policy was legislated. After following many possible leads to complete their vision, the decision was made to maintain Carrup Carrup as the church offices but to seek a new home for the offices and Sunday worship in a single building. In 2010 a building was purchased at 107 Seaford Place, Seaford - funded by the sale of Carrup Carrup. Prayer vigils are being held to ensure that this new purchase can be turned into a place of worship unlike the failed attempt at Carrup Carrup, leaving EMC, being kicked out of the BEC and being "homeless" until the generosity of Pastor Mark of Jubilee agreed to a shared building arrangement.
Gateway moved its offices to the new location in February 2011 and plans to convert a manufacturing area into a +400 seat auditorium along with various other refurbishments to facilitate their day to day activities effectively. Renovations will begin some time in 2011 for completion by 2012.
[edit] 3 Papua New Guinea
Gateway has started 4 churches in Papua New Guinea - in Boroko (2004) and Moitaka (2007) in Port Moresby, as well as in the highland towns of Goroko (2006) and Lay (2008).
[edit] 3.1 Community development
After 15 years working in PNG communities, a partnership was launched between Australian and Papua New Guinea Gateway Churches - and Compassion Australia in 2007 called the 'Gateway Children’s Fund'.[21]
The Fund is a multi-level Child Development Project aimed at releasing children from poverty in PNG. It primarily focusses on the needs of the whole child through provision of better education, nutrition, health care, clean water, and Christian discipleship. Since the Fund’s launch in June 2007, it has raised over A$200,000 for the relief of poverty in slum settlements in Port Moresby suburbs of Boroko and Moitaka. With the recent endorsement of PNG’s Community Services Minister, Dame Carol Kidu, The Gateway Children’s Fund plans to develop in places where Gateway is planting churches, like the highland town of Goroka and Lae. Following the sucess of the Papua New Guinea mission. Gateway is set to launch a similar program in their own backyard. They are also considering a mission to aboriginal settlements in outback Australia.
[edit] 3.2 Raising awareness & support
In 2008 Gateway launched Vada Cafe,[22] which seeks to provide funds for the Gateway Children's Fund and create awareness of the poverty in Papua New Guinea. The cafe has Fairtrade certification by the Fair Trade Association of Australia and New Zealand. Vada Cafe is situated in Frankston central on Nepean Highway.
In 2009 Vada Cafe was nominated as one of Melbourne's top 100 Cafe's, by the Melbourne Coffee Review.
[edit] 4 References
^ http://www.frankston.net/churchest.htm
^ http://www.frankston.net/churchest.htm
^ http://www.buv.com.au/AboutUs/OurChurches.aspx[dead link]
^ Morris, Mike (2011-02-01). "Frankston Council gives Gateway church nod". Frankston Weekly. Retrieved 2011-08-17.
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Newsroom/2007/May/Gateway_Festival_To_Explore_The_Spirit/indexdl_4811.aspx
^ http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library/scripts/objectifyMedia.aspx?file=pdf/47/03.pdf&str_title=01.pdf[dead link]
^ Frankston Leader newspaper http://frankston-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/frankston-festival-lights-the-way-to-christmas/
^ Editorial from Frankston Independent newspaper: "Women Run the Boards" 23 January 2007
^ http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Arts_Events_and_Leisure/Calendar/2007/October/Gateway_Mixed_Basketball_Tournament/indexdl_5699.aspx[dead link]
^ http://www.goforyourlife.vic.gov.au/hav/directory.nsf/pages/Gateway_Family_Church?open[dead link]
^ http://www.asf.org.au/information/index/newsletters/new_newsletter
^ http://www.prowess.com.au/co_web/gateway/[dead link]
^ "Next stop is Beijing" Frankston Independent, 8 April 2008
^ staff (2008-04-21). "New life for old cinema in Frankston". Frankston Standard Leader. Retrieved 2011-08-17.
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Newsroom/2008/March/Easter_Entertainment_at_the_Waterfront/indexdl_6982.aspx[dead link]
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Arts_Events_and_Leisure/Calendar/2009/April/Good_Friday_March_and_Family_Fun_Day/indexdl_9564.aspx[dead link]
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Events_-_Whats_On/Major_Events/Frankstons_Christmas_Festival_of_Lights/Program_Main_Stage/index.aspx
^ http://gateway.asn.au/your-church/gateway-life-training-institute.html
^ http://www.morningtonpeninsula.com.au/directory/schools-further-education-courses/playgroups/gateway-family-church[dead link]
^ Australian Christian Channel News Article http://www.acctv.com.au/articledetail.asp?id=5839[dead link]
^ http://childrensfund.org.au/
^ http://vadacafe.com.au/
[edit] 5 External links
Gateway website
Frankston Visitor Information Centre
Coordinates: 38°8′33″S 145°7′30″E
This page was last modified on 2011-08-17 at 05:59:01
Revision history of Gateway Church (Australia)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T05:59:01 99of9 (talk | contribs) (11,880 bytes) (PNG summary into lead) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T01:19:10 74.250.3.121 (talk) (14,322 bytes) (change Texas to USA, since this article lists it to Australia) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:05:15 Lithistman (talk | contribs) (10,621 bytes) (no need for this now that the main page is a disambig) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:01:43 Lithistman (talk | contribs) m (10,702 bytes) (moved Gateway Church to Gateway Church (Australia): This church is no more notable than the one in Texas. Also, there are other potentially notable "Gateway" churches, making this a better landing place for this article.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2009-05-13T00:29:00 Lskil09 (talk | contribs) (7,639 bytes) (←Created page with ''''Gateway Church''' - also known as '''Gateway Family Church''', is a contemporary Christian community on the Mornington Peninsula, [[Victoria (Austral…')
Talk:Gateway Church (Australia)
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[edit] 1 Neutrality
On 5 December 2009, this page was flagged for neutrality. On 12th December, a significant re-editing was taken. After this the neutrality sign was removed.--Lskil09 (talk) 16:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
On 25 August 2010, the page was again found to be written with a clear negative bias and was re-written to provide a factual, unbiased article. --Singe.gill (talk) 11:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
[edit] 2 Encyclopedic significance vs neutrality
I refer to the suggestion that this page has been nominated for deletion. The primary issue with this article as stands is that it contains a fair bit of unreferenced material. Since wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should primarily contain externally referenced information.
I recommend this page for a re-edit, but certainly not a deletion. There is certainly enough references to news articles to verify the substantiality of the existence of this page. However a fair degree of the information probably just needs to be more concise.
--74.250.3.121 (talk) 01:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This page was last modified on 2011-08-16 at 01:27:07.
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Revision history of Talk:Gateway Church (Australia)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T01:27:07 74.250.3.121 (talk) (1,317 bytes) (re: nomination for deletion) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:01:44 Lithistman (talk | contribs) m (612 bytes) (moved Talk:Gateway Church to Talk:Gateway Church (Australia): This church is no more notable than the one in Texas. Also, there are other potentially notable "Gateway" churches, making this a better landing place for this article.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-10-01T21:49:48 John Carter (talk | contribs) m (612 bytes) (C class for Christianity) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-08-25T01:05:03 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (496 bytes) (→Neutrality) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-12-12T16:23:06 Lskil09 (talk | contribs) (258 bytes) (re-editing for neutrality)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
Feel free to edit the article, but the article must not be blanked, and this notice must not be removed, until the discussion is closed. For more information, particularly on merging or moving the article during the discussion, read the Guide to deletion.
This article is written like an advertisement. Please help rewrite this article from a neutral point of view. For blatant advertising that would require a fundamental rewrite to become encyclopedic, use {{db-spam}} to mark for speedy deletion. (July 2011)
The topic of this article may not meet the notability guidelines for companies and organizations. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. (July 2011)
For the church in the USA with the same name, see Gateway Church (Texas).
Gateway Church (Australia)
Website http://www.gateway.asn.au
Gateway Church - also known as Gateway Family Church, is a contemporary Christian community on the Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia.[1] Their purpose statement is "Taking hold of the real life that Jesus gives, we grow people with a passionate concern for our world." The church is involved in community development in Papua New Guinea, where it has also started four churches.
Contents
1 History
2 Melbourne, Australia
2.1 Community involvement
2.2 Weekend services
2.3 Conferences
2.4 Podcast
2.5 Property & future plans
3 Papua New Guinea
3.1 Community development
3.2 Raising awareness & support
4 References
5 External links
[edit] 1 History
Gateway began with 24 people in 1986 as a "church plant" from the Pines Forest Baptist church.The original pastor became ill shortly after services commenced. In his absence Rick Paynter took charge of this new church.
Gateway grew from a home church and occupied many venues as the church developed. Gateway is currently in the process of developing a new site at 107 Seaford Place that they intend to occupy for the foreseeable future[2]. They are affiliated with the Baptist Union of Australia.[3]
The church started in Langwarrin, and then moved to Frankston. They have recently purchased a factory in Seaford and currently have plans for a 400 seat auditorium and various other refurbishments.[4]
[edit] 2 Melbourne, Australia
Gateway says their aim is to be open to those who are genuinely seeking spiritual answers. They use modern music, drama & theatre, dance, film and other creative arts to create a "contemporary style of ministry".[5][6][7]
[edit] 2.1 Community involvement
Gateway runs sporting and recreational activities [8][9] with the Victorian Government's 'Go For Your Life' program.[10][11] This includes the Gateway Basketball Association [12] with +500 players, 4WD trips, fishing trips, golf tournaments and weekend events. In 2008 a swimmer from Gateway - Ellie Cole, represented Australia in the 2008 Paralympic Games.[13] The sports and recreation ministries have struggled when the enthusiastic but frustrated Murray Holmes left to start his own church "Liquid".
Gateway has performed theatre productions since about 1995. In 2005, they performed Bye Bye Birdie jointly with staff and students from Elisabeth Murdoch College. In 2008 the church made its home in the Frankston Village Theatre complex, hosting the musicals within the meeting space.[14] The opening theatre production was entitled "Pirates of the Peninsula".
Gateway is involved in community festivals around Frankston.[15] They assist the key organiser of the Frankston Good Friday March and Family Fun Day,[16] as well as contributing to the Frankston Festival of Lights.[17]
To provide nationally recognised courses in Business and Management, a Life Training Institute began in 2006.[18]
[edit] 2.2 Weekend services
During Sunday services, crèche and primary school age children attend Godzone. Gateway Youth run mid-week activities, with an annual summer camp called Camp No Fear attracting about 250 youth. During the week Gateway runs playgroups for pre-schoolers.[19]
[edit] 2.3 Conferences
Gateway ran a 'Connecting Conference' about starting new churches for several years, the most recent being in 2005 and held at Mount Eliza Business School [1]. Since 2007 they have co-organised the annual "Unite Creative Arts Conference" with Crossway Baptist Church, Christian City Church (Whitehorse) and Careforce Church [20]
Since 1998 the largest group of delegates to the Hillsong Conference has come from Gateway, with +560 delegates in 2009.This large group is made up of people from over 30 different non Gateway churches and includes individuals from New Zealand and South Africa. Des and Brenda Deacon have co-ordinated this large group of delegates for 20+ years. The growth can be attributed to their exceptional organisational management and networking skills. The Deacons have retired from organising this event following the 2010 event. Gatways recognises their dedication and hard work as the major factor in the churches biggest annual event.
In 2009 they ran a PNG Conference in Mt Hagen. Delegates attended from each of the 4 Gateway PNG Churches and Melbourne.
[edit] 2.4 Podcast
Gateway Youth began podcasting monthly events in August 2008. Itunes recorded an annual +15,000 downloads.
[edit] 2.5 Property & future plans
Gateway Church in Melbourne planned to build and manage its own LIFE centre. They had plans to develop a worship and performing arts theatre, conference centre, and other community facilities - located on a 60-acre (24 ha) campus in Baxter, Victoria known as “Carrup Carrup” by the traditional Australian Aboriginal owners. This translates to 'highland on the marshes'. The land was originally owned by Benjamin Baxter, and his original cottage is still preserved on the land.
Gateway received a planning permit to build on the land from the Victorian Government, but this was revoked after the Melbourne 2030 Green Wedge Policy was legislated. After following many possible leads to complete their vision, the decision was made to maintain Carrup Carrup as the church offices but to seek a new home for the offices and Sunday worship in a single building. In 2010 a building was purchased at 107 Seaford Place, Seaford - funded by the sale of Carrup Carrup. Prayer vigils are being held to ensure that this new purchase can be turned into a place of worship unlike the failed attempt at Carrup Carrup, leaving EMC, being kicked out of the BEC and being "homeless" until the generosity of Pastor Mark of Jubilee agreed to a shared building arrangement.
Gateway moved its offices to the new location in February 2011 and plans to convert a manufacturing area into a +400 seat auditorium along with various other refurbishments to facilitate their day to day activities effectively. Renovations will begin some time in 2011 for completion by 2012.
[edit] 3 Papua New Guinea
Gateway has started 4 churches in Papua New Guinea - in Boroko (2004) and Moitaka (2007) in Port Moresby, as well as in the highland towns of Goroko (2006) and Lay (2008).
[edit] 3.1 Community development
After 15 years working in PNG communities, a partnership was launched between Australian and Papua New Guinea Gateway Churches - and Compassion Australia in 2007 called the 'Gateway Children’s Fund'.[21]
The Fund is a multi-level Child Development Project aimed at releasing children from poverty in PNG. It primarily focusses on the needs of the whole child through provision of better education, nutrition, health care, clean water, and Christian discipleship. Since the Fund’s launch in June 2007, it has raised over A$200,000 for the relief of poverty in slum settlements in Port Moresby suburbs of Boroko and Moitaka. With the recent endorsement of PNG’s Community Services Minister, Dame Carol Kidu, The Gateway Children’s Fund plans to develop in places where Gateway is planting churches, like the highland town of Goroka and Lae. Following the sucess of the Papua New Guinea mission. Gateway is set to launch a similar program in their own backyard. They are also considering a mission to aboriginal settlements in outback Australia.
[edit] 3.2 Raising awareness & support
In 2008 Gateway launched Vada Cafe,[22] which seeks to provide funds for the Gateway Children's Fund and create awareness of the poverty in Papua New Guinea. The cafe has Fairtrade certification by the Fair Trade Association of Australia and New Zealand. Vada Cafe is situated in Frankston central on Nepean Highway.
In 2009 Vada Cafe was nominated as one of Melbourne's top 100 Cafe's, by the Melbourne Coffee Review.
[edit] 4 References
^ http://www.frankston.net/churchest.htm
^ http://www.frankston.net/churchest.htm
^ http://www.buv.com.au/AboutUs/OurChurches.aspx[dead link]
^ Morris, Mike (2011-02-01). "Frankston Council gives Gateway church nod". Frankston Weekly. Retrieved 2011-08-17.
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Newsroom/2007/May/Gateway_Festival_To_Explore_The_Spirit/indexdl_4811.aspx
^ http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library/scripts/objectifyMedia.aspx?file=pdf/47/03.pdf&str_title=01.pdf[dead link]
^ Frankston Leader newspaper http://frankston-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/frankston-festival-lights-the-way-to-christmas/
^ Editorial from Frankston Independent newspaper: "Women Run the Boards" 23 January 2007
^ http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Arts_Events_and_Leisure/Calendar/2007/October/Gateway_Mixed_Basketball_Tournament/indexdl_5699.aspx[dead link]
^ http://www.goforyourlife.vic.gov.au/hav/directory.nsf/pages/Gateway_Family_Church?open[dead link]
^ http://www.asf.org.au/information/index/newsletters/new_newsletter
^ http://www.prowess.com.au/co_web/gateway/[dead link]
^ "Next stop is Beijing" Frankston Independent, 8 April 2008
^ staff (2008-04-21). "New life for old cinema in Frankston". Frankston Standard Leader. Retrieved 2011-08-17.
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Newsroom/2008/March/Easter_Entertainment_at_the_Waterfront/indexdl_6982.aspx[dead link]
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Arts_Events_and_Leisure/Calendar/2009/April/Good_Friday_March_and_Family_Fun_Day/indexdl_9564.aspx[dead link]
^ Frankston Council Press Report http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Events_-_Whats_On/Major_Events/Frankstons_Christmas_Festival_of_Lights/Program_Main_Stage/index.aspx
^ http://gateway.asn.au/your-church/gateway-life-training-institute.html
^ http://www.morningtonpeninsula.com.au/directory/schools-further-education-courses/playgroups/gateway-family-church[dead link]
^ Australian Christian Channel News Article http://www.acctv.com.au/articledetail.asp?id=5839[dead link]
^ http://childrensfund.org.au/
^ http://vadacafe.com.au/
[edit] 5 External links
Gateway website
Frankston Visitor Information Centre
Coordinates: 38°8′33″S 145°7′30″E
This page was last modified on 2011-08-17 at 05:59:01
Revision history of Gateway Church (Australia)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T05:59:01 99of9 (talk | contribs) (11,880 bytes) (PNG summary into lead) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T05:42:27 99of9 (talk | contribs) m (11,769 bytes) (→Community development) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T05:37:48 99of9 (talk | contribs) m (11,770 bytes) (→Community involvement: sp) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T05:22:24 99of9 (talk | contribs) (11,444 bytes) (→History) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T00:48:15 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (11,166 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T00:46:48 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (11,117 bytes) (→History) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-17T00:35:52 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (11,665 bytes) (→Community involvement) (undo) (Tag: references removed)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T20:54:15 121.219.112.39 (talk) (12,602 bytes) (→Community development) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T04:00:41 StAnselm (talk | contribs) (12,397 bytes) (Disambiguated: Willow Creek → Willow Creek Association, Frankston → Frankston, Victoria) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T03:56:37 StAnselm (talk | contribs) (12,348 bytes) (→History: Removed opinion, speculation and innuendo) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T01:19:10 74.250.3.121 (talk) (14,322 bytes) (change Texas to USA, since this article lists it to Australia) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T01:07:08 Bleakcomb (talk | contribs) (14,320 bytes) (Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gateway Church (Australia). (TW)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-15T15:13:35 121.220.54.143 (talk) (13,907 bytes) (→Property & future plans) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2011-08-06T15:19:57 Dravecky (talk | contribs) (10,691 bytes) (some wikification, formatting fixes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:05:15 Lithistman (talk | contribs) (10,621 bytes) (no need for this now that the main page is a disambig) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:01:43 Lithistman (talk | contribs) m (10,702 bytes) (moved Gateway Church to Gateway Church (Australia): This church is no more notable than the one in Texas. Also, there are other potentially notable "Gateway" churches, making this a better landing place for this article.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-07-15T03:25:46 Helpful Pixie Bot (talk | contribs) m (10,702 bytes) (Dated {{Dead link}} x 9. (Build p613)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-07-15T03:20:36 Bleakcomb (talk | contribs) (10,508 bytes) (Tag dead links, update a link, WP is not a WP:RS. - meaningless external links.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-07-13T12:02:47 Bleakcomb (talk | contribs) m (10,702 bytes) (Added {{advert}} and {{notability}} tags to article (TW)) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2010-09-01T21:31:24 LSkil10 (talk | contribs) (10,167 bytes) (removed sentence (subjective comment) & fixed grammar.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-08-29T19:14:08 LilHelpa (talk | contribs) m (10,304 bytes) (General fixes and Typo fixing, typos fixed: acheive → achieve, differnt → different using AWB) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-08-25T01:01:26 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (10,317 bytes) (→Property & future plans: Updated information about church move (future plans)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-08-25T00:56:47 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (9,957 bytes) (→History: Removed obvious negative bias and replaced information with that written in a factual tone.) (undo) (Tag: references removed)
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(cur | prev) 2009-05-13T00:29:00 Lskil09 (talk | contribs) (7,639 bytes) (←Created page with ''''Gateway Church''' - also known as '''Gateway Family Church''', is a contemporary Christian community on the Mornington Peninsula, [[Victoria (Austral…')
Talk:Gateway Church (Australia)
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[edit] 1 Neutrality
On 5 December 2009, this page was flagged for neutrality. On 12th December, a significant re-editing was taken. After this the neutrality sign was removed.--Lskil09 (talk) 16:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
On 25 August 2010, the page was again found to be written with a clear negative bias and was re-written to provide a factual, unbiased article. --Singe.gill (talk) 11:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
[edit] 2 Encyclopedic significance vs neutrality
I refer to the suggestion that this page has been nominated for deletion. The primary issue with this article as stands is that it contains a fair bit of unreferenced material. Since wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should primarily contain externally referenced information.
I recommend this page for a re-edit, but certainly not a deletion. There is certainly enough references to news articles to verify the substantiality of the existence of this page. However a fair degree of the information probably just needs to be more concise.
--74.250.3.121 (talk) 01:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This page was last modified on 2011-08-16 at 01:27:07.
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Revision history of Talk:Gateway Church (Australia)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T01:27:07 74.250.3.121 (talk) (1,317 bytes) (re: nomination for deletion) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-02T14:01:44 Lithistman (talk | contribs) m (612 bytes) (moved Talk:Gateway Church to Talk:Gateway Church (Australia): This church is no more notable than the one in Texas. Also, there are other potentially notable "Gateway" churches, making this a better landing place for this article.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-10-01T21:49:48 John Carter (talk | contribs) m (612 bytes) (C class for Christianity) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-08-25T01:05:03 Singe.gill (talk | contribs) (496 bytes) (→Neutrality) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-12-12T16:23:06 Lskil09 (talk | contribs) (258 bytes) (re-editing for neutrality)
Catholic Public Domain Version
Catholic Public Domain Version
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
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Catholic Public Domain Version
Full name: Catholic Public Domain Version
Abbreviation: CPDV
Complete Bible published: 100% complete, March 28th, 2009
Textual basis: Sixtus V and Clement VIII Latin Vulgate
Translation type: modern
Copyright status: Public domain (copyright waived)
Online address: http://www.sacredbible.org/
Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. But the earth was empty and unoccupied, and darknesses were over the face of the abyss; and so the Spirit of God was brought over the waters. And God said, "Let there be light." And light became.
Genesis 1:1 in other translations
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that all who believe in him may not perish, but may have eternal life.
John 3:16 in other translations
This box: view · talk · edit
The Bible in English
Old English (pre-1066)
Middle English (1066–1500)
Early Modern English (1500–1800)
Modern Christian (1800–)
Modern Jewish (1853–)
Miscellaneous
This box: view · talk · edit
The Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV), is an English translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate, prepared and edited by Catholic writer Ronald L. Conte Jr.. The translator used the Challoner Douay-Rheims version as a guide in translating the Latin Vulgate edition of Popes Sixtus V and Clement VIII. This translation is published together with the Latin Vulgate text, translation notes, and commentary.
The CPDV is published without ecclesiastical approval and hence has not obtained official recognition as a Catholic version of Sacred Scripture. It has no Imprimatur. Canon 825 of the Roman Catholic Code of Canon Law provides:
§1. Books of the sacred scriptures cannot be published unless the Apostolic See or the conference of bishops has approved them. For the publication of their translations into the vernacular, it is also required that they be approved by the same authority and provided with necessary and sufficient annotations.
[edit] External links
Official site
Stub icon This article about a book related to Christianity is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
v · d · eEnglish language translations of the Bible
5th–11th century
Wessex Gospels · Old English Hexateuch · Old English Bible translations
Middle English
Wycliffe · Middle English Bible translations
16th–17th century
Tyndale · Coverdale · Matthew · Great Bible · Taverner · Geneva · Bishops' · Douay–Rheims · Authorized King James
18th–19th century
Challoner · Webster's · Young's Literal · Revised · Darby · Joseph Smith · Quaker
20th century
American Standard · Rotherham's Emphasized · Ferrar Fenton · Worrell New Testament · Knox · Basic English · Revised Standard · Anchor · New World · New English Bible · New American Standard · Good News · Jerusalem · New American · Living · New International · New Century · Bethel · New King James · New Jerusalem · Recovery · New Revised Standard · Revised English · Contemporary English · The Message · Clear Word · New Life · 21st Century King James · Third Millennium · New International Reader's · New International Inclusive Language · God's Word · New Living · Complete Jewish Bible · International Standard · Holman Christian Standard · The Scriptures '98
21st century
World English · English Standard · Today's New International · New English Translation (NET Bible) · New English Translation of the Septuagint · Orthodox Study Bible · The Voice · Common English Bible · Catholic Public Domain · WGC Illustrated · Apostolic Bible Polyglot · Open English Bible · Eastern Orthodox Bible · New American Bible Revised Edition · Lexham English Bible
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Revision history of Catholic Public Domain Version
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T00:21:14 Chonak (talk | contribs) (2,409 bytes) (AfD: Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catholic Public Domain Version (2nd nomination)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-15T09:23:30 Good Olfactory (talk | contribs) (2,143 bytes) (added Category:2009 in religion using HotCat) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-06-17T11:15:32 86.164.66.52 (talk) (2,113 bytes) (Added that it has no Imprimatur, wikilinked.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-10-13T16:13:45 Mclay1 (talk | contribs) m (2,088 bytes) (Adding category Category:2009 books (using HotCat)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-07-12T21:03:48 Surv1v4l1st (talk | contribs) (2,064 bytes) (→External links: Formatting) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-03-14T23:01:51 JBogdan (talk | contribs) (2,047 bytes) (added navbox) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-03-14T21:49:06 JBogdan (talk | contribs) (2,009 bytes) (added category Category:Public domain books) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-07-28T11:11:58 Cavila (talk | contribs) m (1,976 bytes) (Removed category Bible versions and translations; Quick-adding category English Bible translations (using HotCat)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-11T19:25:33 Chonak (talk | contribs) (1,980 bytes) (drop link; article was deleted) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-09T13:30:36 75.74.23.83 (talk) (1,984 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T19:24:34 Spitfire (talk | contribs) m (1,966 bytes) (Date for notability tag) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:05:26 Chonak (talk | contribs) (1,950 bytes) (tidy up; add wikilinks; stick to facts. Is this one-man project notable?) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-03-16T16:57:45 151.53.155.67 (talk) (2,162 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-03-16T16:55:50 151.53.155.67 (talk) (2,175 bytes) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2008-10-26T00:31:25 151.53.156.29 (talk) (2,131 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-10-26T00:29:35 151.53.156.29 (talk) (2,131 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-09-25T10:16:02 SmackBot (talk | contribs) m (2,015 bytes) (Correct header caps and general fixes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-09-01T17:58:13 Pediahound (talk | contribs) (2,016 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-08-16T00:30:18 66.229.175.245 (talk) (1,989 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-08-02T15:05:18 Pediahound (talk | contribs) (1,960 bytes) (Adding section on relevant Canon Law) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-04-30T03:02:54 GRBerry (talk | contribs) (1,489 bytes) (uopdate completion percentage based on current value at external link) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-02-17T18:24:34 208.7.93.138 (talk) (1,490 bytes) (→Characteristics of the Translation) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-02-16T22:02:30 Radi3752 (talk | contribs) (1,509 bytes) (→Characteristics) (undo)
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Talk:Catholic Public Domain Version
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[edit] Vatican has only 4 years left?
A quote from a CPDV page ([1]):" Having a Bible version controlled by the Holy See would be a significant advantage over the current situation, where the liberal USCCB controls the NAB version, and Protestant groups control numerous other versions (even the RSV Catholic Edition), and secular for-profit corporations own the copyright on the Jerusalem and New Jerusalem Bibles.
But the Church is about to pass through a time of great suffering. And the City of the Vatican will be destroyed in July of 2013. So it may be some time before the Holy See has Bible versions in various languages over which it has the primary responsibility for editing and maintaining."
Huh? Vatican destroyed? :-S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.182.115.194 (talk) 18:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I've encountered this person on other parts of the Internet. Has this curious property of considering themselves devoutly Catholic while also apparently feeling that the entire Catholic Church is corrupt and stupid, and should do things their way. They had been informed before publishing this Bible that they needed to get a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, etc, before their translation could be considered even a non-corrupt guide to Scripture for a Catholic, let alone become the primary English text, as they clearly want. Still they went ahead and published without, apparently, even trying to get it approved. It doesn't really surprise me to see them also stating various interpretations of prophecy as fact.
Readers may enjoy looking at Prophecy of the Popes and Three secrets of Fatima. 86.164.66.52 (talk) 12:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
This page was last modified on 2011-06-17 at 12:02:41.
Revision history of Talk:Catholic Public Domain Version
(cur | prev) 2011-06-17T12:02:41 86.164.66.52 (talk) (2,086 bytes) (→Vatican has only 4 years left?) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:41:41 SineBot (talk | contribs) m (1,156 bytes) (Signing comment by 81.182.115.194 - "") (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:40:15 81.182.115.194 (talk) (856 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-20T16:20:55 GRBerry (talk | contribs) m (64 bytes) (bible project also) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-20T16:20:01 GRBerry (talk | contribs) (54 bytes) (christianity wikiproject, stub, catholicism)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
Feel free to edit the article, but the article must not be blanked, and this notice must not be removed, until the discussion is closed. For more information, particularly on merging or moving the article during the discussion, read the Guide to deletion.
The topic of this article may not meet the general notability guideline. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. (April 2009)
Catholic Public Domain Version
Full name: Catholic Public Domain Version
Abbreviation: CPDV
Complete Bible published: 100% complete, March 28th, 2009
Textual basis: Sixtus V and Clement VIII Latin Vulgate
Translation type: modern
Copyright status: Public domain (copyright waived)
Online address: http://www.sacredbible.org/
Genesis 1:1-3
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. But the earth was empty and unoccupied, and darknesses were over the face of the abyss; and so the Spirit of God was brought over the waters. And God said, "Let there be light." And light became.
Genesis 1:1 in other translations
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that all who believe in him may not perish, but may have eternal life.
John 3:16 in other translations
This box: view · talk · edit
The Bible in English
Old English (pre-1066)
Middle English (1066–1500)
Early Modern English (1500–1800)
Modern Christian (1800–)
Modern Jewish (1853–)
Miscellaneous
This box: view · talk · edit
The Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV), is an English translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate, prepared and edited by Catholic writer Ronald L. Conte Jr.. The translator used the Challoner Douay-Rheims version as a guide in translating the Latin Vulgate edition of Popes Sixtus V and Clement VIII. This translation is published together with the Latin Vulgate text, translation notes, and commentary.
The CPDV is published without ecclesiastical approval and hence has not obtained official recognition as a Catholic version of Sacred Scripture. It has no Imprimatur. Canon 825 of the Roman Catholic Code of Canon Law provides:
§1. Books of the sacred scriptures cannot be published unless the Apostolic See or the conference of bishops has approved them. For the publication of their translations into the vernacular, it is also required that they be approved by the same authority and provided with necessary and sufficient annotations.
[edit] External links
Official site
Stub icon This article about a book related to Christianity is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
v · d · eEnglish language translations of the Bible
5th–11th century
Wessex Gospels · Old English Hexateuch · Old English Bible translations
Middle English
Wycliffe · Middle English Bible translations
16th–17th century
Tyndale · Coverdale · Matthew · Great Bible · Taverner · Geneva · Bishops' · Douay–Rheims · Authorized King James
18th–19th century
Challoner · Webster's · Young's Literal · Revised · Darby · Joseph Smith · Quaker
20th century
American Standard · Rotherham's Emphasized · Ferrar Fenton · Worrell New Testament · Knox · Basic English · Revised Standard · Anchor · New World · New English Bible · New American Standard · Good News · Jerusalem · New American · Living · New International · New Century · Bethel · New King James · New Jerusalem · Recovery · New Revised Standard · Revised English · Contemporary English · The Message · Clear Word · New Life · 21st Century King James · Third Millennium · New International Reader's · New International Inclusive Language · God's Word · New Living · Complete Jewish Bible · International Standard · Holman Christian Standard · The Scriptures '98
21st century
World English · English Standard · Today's New International · New English Translation (NET Bible) · New English Translation of the Septuagint · Orthodox Study Bible · The Voice · Common English Bible · Catholic Public Domain · WGC Illustrated · Apostolic Bible Polyglot · Open English Bible · Eastern Orthodox Bible · New American Bible Revised Edition · Lexham English Bible
This page was last modified on 2011-08-16 at 00:21:14.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.
Revision history of Catholic Public Domain Version
(cur | prev) 2011-08-16T00:21:14 Chonak (talk | contribs) (2,409 bytes) (AfD: Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catholic Public Domain Version (2nd nomination)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-08-15T09:23:30 Good Olfactory (talk | contribs) (2,143 bytes) (added Category:2009 in religion using HotCat) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-06-17T11:15:32 86.164.66.52 (talk) (2,113 bytes) (Added that it has no Imprimatur, wikilinked.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-10-13T16:13:45 Mclay1 (talk | contribs) m (2,088 bytes) (Adding category Category:2009 books (using HotCat)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-07-12T21:03:48 Surv1v4l1st (talk | contribs) (2,064 bytes) (→External links: Formatting) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-03-14T23:01:51 JBogdan (talk | contribs) (2,047 bytes) (added navbox) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-03-14T21:49:06 JBogdan (talk | contribs) (2,009 bytes) (added category Category:Public domain books) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-07-28T11:11:58 Cavila (talk | contribs) m (1,976 bytes) (Removed category Bible versions and translations; Quick-adding category English Bible translations (using HotCat)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-11T19:25:33 Chonak (talk | contribs) (1,980 bytes) (drop link; article was deleted) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-09T13:30:36 75.74.23.83 (talk) (1,984 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T19:24:34 Spitfire (talk | contribs) m (1,966 bytes) (Date for notability tag) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:05:26 Chonak (talk | contribs) (1,950 bytes) (tidy up; add wikilinks; stick to facts. Is this one-man project notable?) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-03-16T16:57:45 151.53.155.67 (talk) (2,162 bytes) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2008-04-30T03:02:54 GRBerry (talk | contribs) (1,489 bytes) (uopdate completion percentage based on current value at external link) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-02-17T18:24:34 208.7.93.138 (talk) (1,490 bytes) (→Characteristics of the Translation) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-02-16T22:02:30 Radi3752 (talk | contribs) (1,509 bytes) (→Characteristics) (undo)
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Talk:Catholic Public Domain Version
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[edit] Vatican has only 4 years left?
A quote from a CPDV page ([1]):" Having a Bible version controlled by the Holy See would be a significant advantage over the current situation, where the liberal USCCB controls the NAB version, and Protestant groups control numerous other versions (even the RSV Catholic Edition), and secular for-profit corporations own the copyright on the Jerusalem and New Jerusalem Bibles.
But the Church is about to pass through a time of great suffering. And the City of the Vatican will be destroyed in July of 2013. So it may be some time before the Holy See has Bible versions in various languages over which it has the primary responsibility for editing and maintaining."
Huh? Vatican destroyed? :-S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.182.115.194 (talk) 18:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I've encountered this person on other parts of the Internet. Has this curious property of considering themselves devoutly Catholic while also apparently feeling that the entire Catholic Church is corrupt and stupid, and should do things their way. They had been informed before publishing this Bible that they needed to get a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, etc, before their translation could be considered even a non-corrupt guide to Scripture for a Catholic, let alone become the primary English text, as they clearly want. Still they went ahead and published without, apparently, even trying to get it approved. It doesn't really surprise me to see them also stating various interpretations of prophecy as fact.
Readers may enjoy looking at Prophecy of the Popes and Three secrets of Fatima. 86.164.66.52 (talk) 12:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
This page was last modified on 2011-06-17 at 12:02:41.
Revision history of Talk:Catholic Public Domain Version
(cur | prev) 2011-06-17T12:02:41 86.164.66.52 (talk) (2,086 bytes) (→Vatican has only 4 years left?) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:41:41 SineBot (talk | contribs) m (1,156 bytes) (Signing comment by 81.182.115.194 - "") (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-04-06T18:40:15 81.182.115.194 (talk) (856 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-20T16:20:55 GRBerry (talk | contribs) m (64 bytes) (bible project also) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-20T16:20:01 GRBerry (talk | contribs) (54 bytes) (christianity wikiproject, stub, catholicism)
30 June 2011
Versification
Versification (Bible)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2011)
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It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into Chapters and verses of the Bible. (Discuss) Proposed since June 2011.
For other uses, see Versification.
Versification is the process by which a text such as the Bible is divided into chapters and verses. The Bible was originally written without these, and thus versification forms part of the Bible's paratext.
[edit] 1 History
The verses in the Hebrew Bible were added by the Masoretes, while verse numbering came later when Robert Estienne introduced them into his 1551 edition of the Greek New Testament and then into his French translation of the whole Bible.
[edit] 2 Implications
Versification makes particular sections of the Bible easier to find and to memorise. The arbitrary division of the new testament into verses in the 16th century is sometimes mistakenly interpreted as if the placement of this verse numbering system were equivalent to a placement of logical pauses (commas) or full stops (periods).
[edit] 3 External links
Alternate Versification – CrossWire Bible Society wiki
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[edit] Proposed merger
I don't see the point of this page, and therefore propose that it be merged and redirected to Chapters and verses of the Bible. The external link currently provided does not serve as a citation for the page content, and is itself so arcane and technical that it is unlikely to help most readers. Therefore "forms part of the Bible's paratext" may be the only bit worth merging. - Fayenatic (talk) 19:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Merge: In looking at the history of this article, my guess is that original wiki editor was not aware of Chapters and Verses of the Bible. Whilst the two topics do refer to different things, given the history of both articles, I doubt either will be developed well enough for the general reader to grok the difference between the two topics. p (talk) 18:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes Done The original version did include a link to that page. I guess this page was created for the purpose of disambiguation; if so, a redirect achieves that. - Fayenatic (talk) 14:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
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(cur | prev) 14:17, 30 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (1,391 bytes) (merger done) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:13, 29 June 2011 Pseudo daoist (talk | contribs) (1,093 bytes) (→Proposed merger: Merge) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:56, 20 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (653 bytes) (→Proposed merger: new section) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:04, 22 April 2011 Pseudo daoist (talk | contribs) (141 bytes) (Bible Portal, Christianity Portal)
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This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2011)
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It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into Chapters and verses of the Bible. (Discuss) Proposed since June 2011.
For other uses, see Versification.
Versification is the process by which a text such as the Bible is divided into chapters and verses. The Bible was originally written without these, and thus versification forms part of the Bible's paratext.
[edit] 1 History
The verses in the Hebrew Bible were added by the Masoretes, while verse numbering came later when Robert Estienne introduced them into his 1551 edition of the Greek New Testament and then into his French translation of the whole Bible.
[edit] 2 Implications
Versification makes particular sections of the Bible easier to find and to memorise. The arbitrary division of the new testament into verses in the 16th century is sometimes mistakenly interpreted as if the placement of this verse numbering system were equivalent to a placement of logical pauses (commas) or full stops (periods).
[edit] 3 External links
Alternate Versification – CrossWire Bible Society wiki
Stub icon This religion-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
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Revision history of Versification (Bible)
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Browse history From year (and earlier): From month (and earlier): Tag filter: Deleted only
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(cur | prev) 12:43, 30 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (46 bytes) (merged to Chapters and verses of the Bible so redirect there) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:50, 20 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (1,276 bytes) (tag as unreferenced, propose merge to Chapters and verses of the Bible) (undo)
(cur | prev) 07:33, 30 October 2010 StAnselm (talk | contribs) (1,149 bytes) (added category) (undo)
(cur | prev) 05:45, 28 September 2010 Rich Farmbrough (talk | contribs) m (1,174 bytes) (→External links: Tag uncat using AWB) (undo)
(cur | prev) 01:45, 24 September 2010 RussBot (talk | contribs) m (1,130 bytes) (Robot: Editing intentional link to disambiguation page in hatnote per WP:INTDABLINK (explanation)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 05:06, 14 September 2010 Hmains (talk | contribs) m (1,096 bytes) (→Implications: copyedit, MOS and or AWB general fixes using AWB (7069)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 23:39, 19 May 2010 StAnselm (talk | contribs) (1,090 bytes) (added hatnote) (undo)
(cur | prev) 23:35, 19 May 2010 StAnselm (talk | contribs) (1,060 bytes) (Copied old version of Versification, now that this has become a disambiguation page)
Talk:Versification (Bible)
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[edit] Proposed merger
I don't see the point of this page, and therefore propose that it be merged and redirected to Chapters and verses of the Bible. The external link currently provided does not serve as a citation for the page content, and is itself so arcane and technical that it is unlikely to help most readers. Therefore "forms part of the Bible's paratext" may be the only bit worth merging. - Fayenatic (talk) 19:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Merge: In looking at the history of this article, my guess is that original wiki editor was not aware of Chapters and Verses of the Bible. Whilst the two topics do refer to different things, given the history of both articles, I doubt either will be developed well enough for the general reader to grok the difference between the two topics. p (talk) 18:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes Done The original version did include a link to that page. I guess this page was created for the purpose of disambiguation; if so, a redirect achieves that. - Fayenatic (talk) 14:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Edit this page | Stop watching | View article | Page history | What links here | Related changes
| Move this page
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This page was last modified on 2011-06-30 at 14:17:39.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.
Contact us
Revision history of Talk:Versification (Bible)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
View logs for this page
Browse history From year (and earlier): From month (and earlier): Tag filter: Deleted only
For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary.
External tools: Revision history statistics · Contributors · Revision history search · Number of watchers · Page view statistics (cur) = difference from current version, (prev) = difference from preceding version, m = minor edit, → = section edit, ← = automatic edit summary
(cur | prev) 14:17, 30 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (1,391 bytes) (merger done) (undo)
(cur | prev) 18:13, 29 June 2011 Pseudo daoist (talk | contribs) (1,093 bytes) (→Proposed merger: Merge) (undo)
(cur | prev) 19:56, 20 June 2011 Fayenatic london (talk | contribs) (653 bytes) (→Proposed merger: new section) (undo)
(cur | prev) 13:04, 22 April 2011 Pseudo daoist (talk | contribs) (141 bytes) (Bible Portal, Christianity Portal)
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