The Drama of the Lost Disciples

The Drama of the Lost Disciples

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The Drama of the Lost Disciples is a 1961 book by George Jowett, a former bodybuilder and fitness instructor, which purports to trace several of Christ's disciples and other associates, including Joseph of Arimathea, St. Paul, St. Simon, and even his mother Mary, to Britain, where they founded a Christian church which predates, and therefore has precedence over, the Roman Catholic Church. The book also espouses British Israelism, arguing that the Welsh and English are descended from the so-called "Lost tribes of Israel", and claiming that they preserved their genetic and religious purity more assiduously than the Jews. Theories based on Jowett's work are popular on the internet, and among British Israelites and adherents of the Christian Identity movement. The book is written in readable style. He cites classical historians, early church fathers, medieval and early modern writers, but many of these citations are distorted and inaccurate. However, the publishers of the 16th UK edition (July 2011) confirm they checked all Jowett's references.


[edit] 1 Examples of distortion of sources

Jowett claims that Julius Caesar, in his De Bello Gallico Book 4,[1] "refers in amazement to the number of populous cities, the architecture, universities of learning, the numerical population of England, and particularly to their religion with its belief in the immortality of the soul". While it is true that Caesar notes Britain's population and its status as a centre of druidical learning, and elsewhere in his commentaries notes the druids' belief in the immortality of the soul, he nowhere mentions British cities, architecture or universities.

He claims that "the early Christian and Roman records abound with the name and warrior fame of Arviragus" (supposedly a British Christian prince who led the defence against the Roman conquest), and quotes Satire IV of Juvenal as saying "Hath our great enemy Arviragus, the car borne British King, dropped from his battle throne?" as an example.[2] This cryptic mention, in a satirical poem about Roman social life, is the only mention of Arviragus's name in the entirety of classical literature, and all other known references to him are derivative of Geoffrey of Monmouth's 12th century Historia Regum Britanniae,[3] also an imaginative nationalist pseudohistory.

He claims that, of Caratacus's supposed "trial" before the emperor Claudius, "Tacitus tells us that his daughter Gladys refused to be separated from her father, though it was against the Roman law for a woman to enter the Senate..." Tacitus nowhere tells us any such thing. After Caratacus was pardoned, he claims "the famed Queen Agrippira (sic) rose from her dais, approaching the Pendragon, and his daughter Gladys, shaking hands with each according to the British fashion, then embracing them, according to the Roman." A footnote to this passage cites Tacitus's Annals 12.37,[4] which again says no such thing. He claims that Pomponia Graecina, the probably Christian wife of Aulus Plautius, was a Briton, also called "Gladys", citing Tacitus's Annals 13.32[5] in support of this assertion; Tacitus does mention Pomponia, and the fact that she was accused of "foreign superstition", but nowhere does he call her "Gladys" or claim she was British.

On other occasions he will put a passage in quotation marks, but not cite its provenance. Where he does cite sources, as shown above, he can often be demonstrated to be taking liberties with them. On other occasions his citations are more reliable, although his sources may not be.

He regularly cites the Annales Ecclesiastici of Caesar Baronius, the 16th century church historian. On one occasion he directly quotes him, regarding Joseph of Arimathea's journey, as saying, under the year AD 35, "In that year the party mentioned was exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britain and after preaching the gospel there, died." This is not quite a direct quotation from the Annales Ecclesiastici, and is mis-cited. A passage found under AD 35, translated into English, reads:

"In this dispersion, Ananias, having set out from Damascus gathered together a company of believers. At the same time, as one can ascertain, Lazarus, Mary Magdalene, Martha and Marcella whom the Jews regarded with great hatred, were not exactly driven away from Jerusalem but, together with the disciple Maximinus, were placed in a boat without oars and were believed to have perished in dangerous seas. By Divine providence they are said to have been driven to Marseilles. Taking with them a friend, Joseph of Arimathea, a noble decurion, they are said to have travelled from Gaul to Britain and there he proclaimed the gospel till his last day..."[6] This passage can be read in Latin in the British Library in London.

It is also sourced by Ludovicus Guérin, the editor of the Annales, to the Acta Magalenae,[7] an 11th century piece of ecclesiastical propaganda.[8]
[edit] 2 References

^ Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico Book IV
^ Juvenal, Satire IV, .126-127
^ Geoffrey of Monmouth, Historia Regum Britanniae 4.12-17
^ Tacitus, Annals 12:37
^ Tacitus, Annals 13:32
^ Ludovicus Guérin (ed), Caesaris Barionii Annales Ecclesiastici, 1864, Vol 1, AD 35 paragraph 5, p. 208
^ op. cit. footnote 3
^ Hans Lewy, "Imaginary Journeys from Palestine to France", Journal of the Warburg Institute Vol. 1, No. 3, 1938, pp. 251-253



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Revision history of The Drama of the Lost Disciples



(cur | prev) 2011-08-04T09:26:20 Nicknack009 (talk | contribs) (6,926 bytes) (AfD: Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Drama of the Lost Disciples) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-07-30T11:30:25 Michael Anthony Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,514 bytes) (16th UK Editon (July 2011); 'AD 36' corrected to 'AD 35' Edit by Chairman of the publisher) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-06-13T01:56:43 ImageRemovalBot (talk | contribs) (6,510 bytes) (Removing deleted image) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-06-05T19:01:42 Kinu (talk | contribs) (6,478 bytes) (Tag deletable fair use image currently lacking rationale.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-05-27T20:59:42 Anglo Pyramidologist (talk | contribs) (6,430 bytes) (added cover of book) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-04-05T06:49:50 FrescoBot (talk | contribs) m (6,357 bytes) (Bot: links syntax and spacing) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:52:13 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,357 bytes) (References checked for the 16th edition) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:33:48 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) (6,255 bytes) (The availability of the AD 35 quotation in Latin in the British Library in London) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-25T21:24:46 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,191 bytes) (Two tribes formed the Kingdom of Judah whereas the Ten Tribes formed the Kingdom of Israel who became 'lost' to secular history. The book written in romantic style is anything but a 'pious fraud') (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:17:59 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) m (6,174 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: cite that) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:16:28 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (6,140 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: link Annales Ecclesiastic, reorder) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:12:37 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (6,051 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: source that) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:05:14 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,756 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: punctuation) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T23:01:14 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,755 bytes) (update Perseus links) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:59:04 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,796 bytes) (convert refs to footnotes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:55:48 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,791 bytes) (add reflist) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:55:17 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,762 bytes) (→Examples of distortion of sources: found ref for that) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:25:28 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (5,572 bytes) (remove weasel words and inaccurate assertions (see talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T00:26:43 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,781 bytes) (New Testament reference to the British royal family in exile in Rome.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T00:03:21 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,489 bytes) ('romantic fraud' for 'pious fraud'; 'are elaborated upon' for 'deliberate distortions' to provide more balance and omit liabllous accusations) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-11T15:54:17 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (6,495 bytes) (Redirection to the year AD 35 in "Annales Ecclesiastici'' for the relevant quotation; tribute to Baronius; publishers remarks on 16th Edition) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-11T09:03:59 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (5,171 bytes) (omit "AD 36-37" for "in the last year of Tiberius") (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T17:16:41 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (5,154 bytes) (Literal correction 'authoritative') (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T16:53:12 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) (5,152 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T16:52:09 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (5,151 bytes) (Updated reference to the 2009 edition with Appendix with adjustment to the balance of bias against the author) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T16:39:55 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (4,855 bytes) (16th (USA) edition Nov 2009.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-09T16:36:44 Michael A Clark (talk | contribs) m (4,850 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-01-02T23:44:42 Lightbot (talk | contribs) (4,825 bytes) (Units/dates/other) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2006-10-23T11:04:55 RobotG (talk | contribs) m (4,810 bytes) (Bot: Removing Category:Dubious historical resources per CFD, see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 October 14) (undo)
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Talk:The Drama of the Lost Disciples

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This article is full of weasle words and sounds like orginal research. Which modern scholar is refuting this Jowett?

~~

I wondered when someone would try this tactic. If checking citations is "original research", then what's the point of including them? Jowett's book is demostrably riddled with falsehoods, and if you want to claim that pointing out those falsehoods is invalid, then I have to wonder about your motivations. --Nicknack009 17:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted new additions

I have changed and/or removed most of the edits by Michael A Clark.

Making up things and attributing them to ancient sources is not "elaborating upon" them, it's dishonest.
A Claudia and a Linus are mentioned in II Timothy. The idea that Claudia was also called "Gladys" and that she and Linus were the children of Caratacus in exile in Rome is not in II Timothy, nor in any other source. It is made up. The first bishop of Rome after Paul is indeed said to have been called Linus, but it is far from certain he was the same Linus as in II Timothy, if he even existed. II Timothy is also widely considered to be a fake.
The Catholic Encyclopedia's opinion of Baronius is a meaningless appeal to authority.
I've also removed weasel words that are designed to obscure the essentially fraudulent nature of the book.--Irishcomics (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2010 (UTC)




This page was last modified on 2010-02-20 at 22:35:18.
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Revision history of Talk:The Drama of the Lost Disciples


(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:35:18 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (1,505 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-02-20T22:31:24 Irishcomics (talk | contribs) (1,289 bytes) (→Reverted new additions: new section) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-02-20T18:37:05 BetacommandBot (talk | contribs) m (558 bytes) (tagging) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2006-01-13T17:49:48 Nicknack009 (talk | contribs) (493 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2006-01-13T01:37:16 LinuxDude (talk | contribs) (121 bytes)